The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk
#330: Deconstructing The Art & Science Of Interviewing With Jay Acunzo
Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com
This is a special bonus episode focusing on deconstructing the art and science of interviewing. You will hear learning happening in real time. Jay Acunzo and I go a meta-level to better understand how to better improve our conversation ability, how to be better in an interview. “Interviewing is a skill that enhances your life in a pleasant and unexpected way.” This is focused on how you can ask better questions, be more interesting and more interested, and become a better conversationalist.
Notes:
- The meta level of deconstructing the process of making the work is rare…
- “I experience the most flow when it’s quiet, nitty-gritty work. Those minute are profoundly rewarding for me.”
- What makes a great interview?
- An open loop — Start telling the story, but wait to close the loop until later to build intrigue…
- The difference between a narrative style show and an interview getting to know someone:
- A story is three parts – The intent of the story: The “Joseph Campbell Heroes Journey” 1) Status Quo 2) Conflict 3) Resolution
- Bucket of questions:
- “Tell me about X…”
- “How did it make you feel?”
- The analysis and the reflection
- Change your mindset: “You’re not an interviewer, you’re a dance partner.”
- “The only thing that matters is that you lead. Everything else is little subtle moves to get people to go to where you want to go.”
- “It’s not a constant march forward. Instead, think of it like a dance. There are some steps back, steps forward, steps to the side — all packaged together in one coherent experience, with lots of zig-zagging and subtle steps inside those boundaries.”
- Open ended questions: “Tell me about X” gets you story details, while “how did it feel when” gets you key moments of reflection and analysis. Both are crucial.
- Clip #1 — JJ Redick
- He says “great question” — what would make someone interviewed as often as a pro athlete say that?
- How to prep for an interview for someone who is interviewed all the time?
- Built a basic rapport leading up to the interview — Discussed sports, restaurants, podcasting, interviewing. Developed a “friend” level of communication
- Create an environment where the guest wants it to be a great show
- Good follow up questions: Ask for an example… Asking, “How did that make you feel?” “What’s your process?” –> Then be a deep, thoughtful listener to ask a follow up.
- Stay on the same level with your dance partner – Don’t be a guest “worshiper”
- When following up, there are a few things you can do: 1) Distill 2) Disagree 3) Ask the next question…
- During an interview, the best question you can ask: “How did that make you feel?” It enables them to get in an emotional lane (away from canned responses)
- Testing the levels on the microphone — Don’t waste that opportunity. Engineer the guest, the human — You need them to feel like we’re hanging out and excited about the interview. Make it fun. What to ask instead: “I’m going to check your levels, do you have any pets at home?” “What would be your last meal on earth?” — It helps people break out of their corporate drone mode. The question is about the person, on a human plane.
- Create a safe space for them to share their truth. “I’m not a journalist, I’m a conversationalist.”
- Clip #2 — Adam Savage
- How did he get on the show? Working with a PR firm to book a guest — A great PR person like Brent Underwood only recommends guests that are a good fit for the show.
- Ask questions that you are genuinely curious about — I am curious about someone’s process and it’s always led me to a useful follow up…
- The issue is sometimes a “process” oriented question is the guest can answer with a generality… How to wiggle out of that?
- Look at the acknowledgement section of their book to get ideas for important people/events in their life to ask about…
- Mental Heuristics: Tell me about, 30,000 feet, go to a specific example… The third question is “Putting them in a box:” — “
- From Jay: Heuristics to tell great AUDIO stories:
- Tell me about…
- How did you feel when (or, how did that feel?)
- Can you give me an example?
- (Superlatives) Best, worst, funniest, scariest, hardest, least certain, favorite, etc…
- (Dig for emotional moments)
- Clip #3 — Brian Koppelman
- How to handle nerves — Work to get settled in. Get through the initial conversation point…
- Give people a genuine compliment for why you like their work — Tell people why their work helps you
- Hidden Gems:
- Interplay between your intent for the work and your framework for it:
- “My goal is to engineer an outcome, but I have an intent I don’t want to become The Bachelor in Paradise.”
- Have self and situational awareness. We carry with us good intent to serve the audience. Don’t let the framework or engineering supersede the original intent.
- The two types of interviews: 1) The person, their story… 2) Their content
- The best conversations are able to weave both together and smoothly bounce back and forth
- Learn about the person AND learn about the topic that he has mastered — Master that dance between both — I need to give you something that is going to make you better.
- Use the “Get To Know You Document“
- Why joining The Learning Leader Circle is a good idea
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