Ryan Hawk

323: Ian Leslie - The Desire To Know & Why Your Future Depends On It

Ryan Hawk         Ryan Hawk        
323: Ian Leslie - The Desire To Know & Why Your Future Depends On It           323: Ian Leslie - The Desire To Know & Why Your Future Depends On It          
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    Ian Leslie is a London-based journalist and author of critically acclaimed books about human behavior. He is currently writing a new book on “productive disagreement”, which will be published in 2020. Ian also created, wrote and performed in the BBC radio comedy Before They Were Famous. Ian appears as a commentator on current affairs and culture for the BBC, Sky, and NPR. Ian co-hosts a podcast on political disagreements called Polarised alongside Matthew Taylor, CEO of the RSA,

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    The Learning Leader Show

    “Really great listeners become great communicators.”

    Show Notes:

    • Leaders who sustain excellence =
      • Have the ability to think about their own thinking — Step outside and reflect
      • Know that you’ll say “I don’t know” frequently
      • Breadth — A range of interests
      • Interested in building knowledge and an awareness that it might not pay off (and being ok with that)
    • Ian built his life around curiosity — He was a strategist for ad agencies.  He needed to deeply understand his clients.  That is a job built on curiosity.
      • “I am a curiosity driven writer.”
    • Children are born curious… “People are born with habits/knowledge to survive.”  And then they stop.  There’s no evolutionary impulse to keep going.
      • It becomes a conscious choice to cognitive resources and time
    • The two types of curiosity
      • Diversive: Hunger for new information.  It comes from an information gap.  Agatha Christie understands how to create an information gap to keep you turning the page
      • Epistemic: Desire to acquire knowledge/build/assimilate into networks in your brain.  It requires discipline.  It’s engendered.  It’s diversive curiosity grown up.
    • “There is a rising premium on people with a high need for cognition.”  NFC (need for cognition) is a scientific measure of intellectual curiosity
    • “Taking action.  Doing… is a form of learning.  They are intertwined.”
    • Reflecting on own habits — use self as a lab experiment… Then talk with others.
    • Empathically curious — Being curious about what’s inside of other person’s head.  How they think and feel.
    • “You’re going to be come a better communicator being a better listener.”
    • Atul Gawande — Ask the unscripted question.  Make a human connection.
    • Have 10% of your brain switched on to “Am I talking too much?”
    • How to have productive disagreements:
      • Don’t avoid it
      • Have disagreements we both can live with
      • “You’ll have more productive disagreement if you’re curious about the other person.”
    • People who have a higher level of scientific curiosity… They don’t rush to judgement.  Think, “Oh, I wonder why I think that?”
    • “Nobody has trained us in how to disagree with each other.”
    • “You have this choice in judgement and curiosity.”
    • Life/Career advice: “Be interested in everything.  Go deep in one area.”
      • Have core people in your life and foster the weak ties.
    • Everyone is born curious. But only some retain the habits of exploring, learning and discovering as they grow older. Which side of the “curiosity divide” are you on?
    • Use the “Get To Know You Document“
    • Why joining The Learning Leader Circle is a good idea

    “Relay experience.  Don’t give advice.”

    More Resources:

    More Learning:

    Episode 078: Kat Cole – From Hooters Waitress To President of Cinnabon

    Episode 216: Jim Collins — How To Go From Good To Great

    Episode #300: AJ & Keith Hawk – How To Instill Work Ethic & Curiosity In Your Children

    Episode #303:  General Stanley McChrystal – The New Definition Of Leadership